Public Safety Comes in a Building?
And now in a handy $5.8 million reusable box! Just add water and serve!
So the City Council has approved looking into designs for a new building to be built in the Industrial Park? This building will purportedly serve several purposes- Store mosquito chemicals, have a firing range, have an emergency responder training center, house a fire station, provide a police outpost to ward off hostile and abusive Indian attacks- OK, I made that one up- and who knows what else...? A crib for the X-Men to hang out at?
"Public Safety" can be used to justify a lot of things that are of questionable efficacy. I would urge council members to go back to the drawing board on this. Is there enough what- crime-? in the industrial park to warrant a police station? Isn't there a fire station straight up on Demers, just a ways from the Industrial Park?
How much mosquito spray do we have to stockpile for Pete's sake? What do aerial spray contractors do with their sprays?
The concept of a training facility that would draw responders from around the area, and generate revenue? Doesn't that sound a lot like "housing federal prisoners to offset the cost of a jail"? I guess I'm not willing to give anyone the benefit of the doubt when it comes to this kind of thing. It was nice of the Feds to give us a robot and a new SWAT truck, etc. , but now we see the cost of storing and maintaining this all come to light.
*Sigh* A curmudgeon's work is never done.
UPDATE: Search no more! There is a 30,000 sq ft building west on Gateway that could be had for quite a bit under a million, nicely insulated, partition it out as you need, and there it is! Even the City council couldn't manage to spend more than 1.5 milion on it, I bet..
So the City Council has approved looking into designs for a new building to be built in the Industrial Park? This building will purportedly serve several purposes- Store mosquito chemicals, have a firing range, have an emergency responder training center, house a fire station, provide a police outpost to ward off hostile and abusive Indian attacks- OK, I made that one up- and who knows what else...? A crib for the X-Men to hang out at?
"Public Safety" can be used to justify a lot of things that are of questionable efficacy. I would urge council members to go back to the drawing board on this. Is there enough what- crime-? in the industrial park to warrant a police station? Isn't there a fire station straight up on Demers, just a ways from the Industrial Park?
How much mosquito spray do we have to stockpile for Pete's sake? What do aerial spray contractors do with their sprays?
The concept of a training facility that would draw responders from around the area, and generate revenue? Doesn't that sound a lot like "housing federal prisoners to offset the cost of a jail"? I guess I'm not willing to give anyone the benefit of the doubt when it comes to this kind of thing. It was nice of the Feds to give us a robot and a new SWAT truck, etc. , but now we see the cost of storing and maintaining this all come to light.
*Sigh* A curmudgeon's work is never done.
UPDATE: Search no more! There is a 30,000 sq ft building west on Gateway that could be had for quite a bit under a million, nicely insulated, partition it out as you need, and there it is! Even the City council couldn't manage to spend more than 1.5 milion on it, I bet..
posted by Good Ol' Boy at 7:08 AM
19 Comments:
As the industrial park (and GF as a whole) continues to expand, a fire station at this location is becoming a must. As it is, if there is a fire at the industrial park, responders have to drive several miles on busy streets to access the fire...scary, IMO.
And if we need to have a fire station at this location, why not co-locate it with other things the city needs? In the long run, it will save money (instead of having one building for this, one building for that, etc) so I would think you would like the reasoning behind that, GOB?
GFG-
On the surface, saving money by consolidating can seem like a good thing, but it can soon turn into a scenario like when the Air Force asks for a new plane. After everyone's wish lists are fulfilled, the plane is so heavy and loaded with so many features, it might not be flightworthy!
I am not railing against first responders, but perhaps rather their managers, who can be carried away with the righteousness of their professions sometimes, and lose sight of the practical limits of spending money on safety.
It's good to be skeptical but this is a building that I think may save the city money or at least make its public safety function more efficient.
First, cops and firefighters have to get training somewhere and when they have to go out of town or out of state to do it, it costs us money and they aren't available for duty if something horrible happens.
Second, the mosquito people are expecting a sharp increase in rent at the place they're at now and that increase would only get worse if the landlord upgrades the fire suppression system, as is necessary.
It's really the difference between paying rent every month and never owning the building or getting a loan and paying a little more to the bank and eventually becoming the owner.
Only "6 million dollars"?
Would "6 million dollars" pay for officers to work while others are training? and then have these officers available after the training to allow others to go for training? (viscious circle theory)
Who will be doing the instructing in the new training center? Bringing in instructors isn't free.
Training instructors to instruct will require oficers to leave for training which is the same problem the training center is supposed to fix. Things are constantly changing so don't tell me they have enough intructors "on hand" to do the training.
Cost to keep training up to date hasn't been mentioned. (operational costs????)
I believe the state, through the POST board, pays for most training of officers in the state now, basically for free. What is the state's budget? Anywhere close to "6 million dollars"?
Chemical storage. Ag Depot, just a short distance south of GF, does proffesional chemical storage and has all the proper safety equipement already installed, that the new center would require.
Chemicals don't need all that safety equipement? How about some vacant buildings in GF, like the old Heyd Construction building (320 No 9th St. I think) If it's that safe to store, maybe use a back room at the old Coke plant that the city already owns?
"6 million dollars"
"6 million dollars"
"6 million dollars"
"6 million dollars"
What's "6 million dollars" in the whole grand scheme of things.
After all, we are talking public safety here. /sarcasm mode?/
Sorry, this whole thing is happening too quickly and too easily.
Maybe there will be less cleaning of snowy streets?? (sorry Dakota, had to steal that one)
I cherish having my leaves picked up off the berm every fall- twice.
we keep hearing the argument of "this will save money in the future", when will that be? it is a tired old argument that doesn't hold water with me, because when it comes time for that savings to kick in, the city has either already spent that money on a project that "will save money in the future" or has plans to spend the money.
unnecessary spending come to mind? It's government at every level-city, county, state and federal. The only difference is now they are all in it together--for the good of the whole?????ya think!
crap to me.
Currently there are a bomb truck, SWAT van, and a bunch of other items that need to be stored by the PD that there are no place for. Space was always an issue, ever since the building built for the police department in the 1970's has been home to municipal court, PSAP, ND Highway Patrol, the sheriff's department, and the county emergency management office. This building has been invaded for the want of rent dollars from the city. If all other departments moved from it, and there were more garage bays, the storage issue would kind of solve itself. Just think...if the SWAT Team didn't have to go to the building at South 20th and 17th Avenue South to get the SWAT van, then to the PD to get equipment and people, the time savings may be worth the money already. (why do you think the SWAT team didn't make it on scene during the recent shooting in EGF).
This concept of a shared facility, by the way, saves millions over building them separately. I question the need for a fire station there seriously...but can anyone question the validity of storage for volatile chemicals outside of a residential area? Also, police and fire training is extremely important for future retention of employees - a very large, expensive problem lately. And, by the way, the Police and Fire depts. have plenty of certified instructors to teach classes here, as well as the fact that the state brings instructors to the city from time to time (much more often if a facitlity like this is built) It is true that the POST board does put on several free classes for law enforcement, but the hotel, car, meals, and other expenses are NOT free, and do cost the city big every year. (and yes, to be realistic it would take about 100 yrs for this to pay for $6 million bucks...but remember, the building has other purposes!)
well - I am done with my rant now...
Cool a firing range.
It's the "City/County Emergency Management" and don't forget it was their $$$$ that helped build that building. You also forgot to mention the "City / County Health Dep't" that was there before the Sheriff's Office was forced to move in.
About the swat team being ready quicker, it isn't a full-time team anyway and all memebers need to be called from home or other assignments no matter where the truck is stored. In fact the new building will be farther away than 20th & 17ave and not even be inside GF.
As for training, the officers, while in training are excused from their normal shifts, so where is the saving since they wouldn't be on the street?
The ND training academy supplies rooom and board for training that occurs there.
You are correct on the attracting of training with the facility but $6,000,000 will pay for a lot of traveling, room & board, etc. expenses.
Yes - it is the city/county emergency management office, and they take up a corner of the police department building. The fact is that, until recently, more than half of the police department building was used for non-police department entities. The PD has fought and gotten some of the space back, but not enough to store all of the items that are included in an equipped, modern police department. The storage issue simply suggests that policing has changed since the 70's, which I think we can all agree has been a good thing. More professional, trained officers on the street. It is also true that the training academy in Bismarck gives free training and does provide room and board. It is also true that if the only training an officer receives is done there, they are lacking in several areas. That acadamy is run by the Highway Patrol, and most training undertaken there is their emphasis, certainly different than a city police department. And even still, a car must be provided, and gas, and meals to and from. Yes, officers at training are not assigned to the street. This often causes overtime as staffing levels must be maintained at all times to protect the citizenry. Now, trust me, I cam a taxpayer too (to the tune of 3.000 plus a year on property tax). I find it very important that the city tighten it's belt. But this facility will not require an increase in the mills. I think this is a much more noble cause - and one that is much more appropriate for tax money - than what the city chooses to spend millions on every year.
Well, Cole55, I'm just as "non-anonymous" as you. If it makes you feel better I'll call myself "Colon56" 0kay?
I agree with gfcity cop on most things, but there are a some things said that were stretched a bit. For example the officer in training is not working the street and the swat team is not full time. The original story put out by the pooolice said it would keep more officers on the street. The swat team can't get there faster if the time the officers need to get there doesn't change even if the place they go to changes.
Not a big disagreement, just a clarification. Doesn't change the fact that $6,000,000 is a LOT OF MONEY! when we are asked to pull in our belts a bit. Seems like someone has money burning a hole in their pocket and has to spend it because it's there.
I'm fairly new to the town and this discussion, but isn't there an empty jail across the street from the PD? I may be wrong about this, so feel free to illuminate me.
Couldn't these chemicals, vans, robots, and other equipment be stored there rather than spending 6 MILLION DOLLARS on a new facility. Take a few cells and make them chemical proof (or whatever need to be done to store them.)
Punch a few holes in the walls and add garage doors and you have a place to store vans, bomb trucks, etc.
Use what I can imagine are pretty thick walls, soundproof and bullet proof them, and you have your firing range.
etc.
etc.
etc.
How much would it cost to turn the old jail into a facility comparable to the one they propose? I would imagine a lot less than $6 million. OK, it might not be big enough for a full training facility, but I'll bet it would serve most of the proposed items.
This facility sounds a lot like decision to buy a Winnebago. With a $100,000+ vehicle owners claim to "be free," yet can really only park it when they find a place to hook up or a Wal-Mart parking lot. Then there's the fuel costs. It's cool to look at, as would be this facility, but it seems like overkill when you can do the same thing in other, and very often cheaper, ways. Like somebody mentioned, that money can buy a lot of flights, hotels, and rental cars.
Just my opinion, and thinking out loud here.
I think the old Jail will be the new sheriff's office because the county commission allowed the jail administrator to screw up the new Jail financing. If the sheriff's office moves out of the police department building the county commission can charge the health department rent for their space in the new county building. The police department can use the space the sheriff's office is now using. Maybe they can storre the chemicals in the old city court offices. The police dispatch will be moving to the second floor of the old jail so they probably don't want to be working over top of chemicals. I think there would be vacant buildings already in grand forks and the 6 mil could be used for something else - maybe the non-profits could use a little to renovate the crappy offices the city council thinks they should share. Wow, 6 mil could do a lot for them instead of a fancy building for the police to brag about just to park a couple of trucks.
Yeah - then we would have cops with tails because we are housed in the same building as mosquito chemicals...nice idea. Would you want mosquito chemicals in your office? And the old jail building would cost tons to renovate to any use except small offices. If you get a tour of that facility (one I was in a lot) you would notice that the building has basically brick and steel (and thick walls mentioned earlier), and would be a bear to renovate. The PD already has an indoor firing range in the basement, but that severely limits any real-world training, as officers can't really move and shoot, and a car can't be put there, etc, etc. Anyways, they police community resource bureau is moving to the PD building and out of the building at South 20th and 17th Avenue South. That building could be suitable for the storage of the trucks, but there would have to be more garage bays built onto that building. I also feel that the city should look at alternatives, but they really are limited if you are familiar with the exisiting facilities. Rmember please, this is not a gift for the PD, it is for a fire station and mosquito control as well! (actually the PD would have the smallest part of any structure) If anything, the need for another fire station should be seriously questioned. The numbers they get are mostly from medical assist calls that the ambulance is usually first of mere seconds behind the fire department.
SOrry - I hit a button accidentaly and could not label the last post - it is mine...sorry
"then we would have cops with tails because we are housed in the same building as mosquito chemicals...nice idea."
Some of them could use one as a counterweight to their bellies.
Seriously, though, do you have some insider knowledge about what the city is spraying where our kids play?
no, I don't - pretty sure it is what they say it is, though. it is true about the couterweight, though :) I just think that when the chemical is dispersed into the air it probably has little side effects, but I still think that the chemicals should be stored in large quantities in a building designed for chemicals...not offices
GOB - REF: Update, give it up.
It's not about a building for the reasons mentioned, it's about bragging rights for the police department. Fargo has a small training center so GF needs one too.
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